Outline · Standard · [ Linear+ ] In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep, story from reuters

[Deepone]

WASHINGTON (Reuters)- When radio host Jerry Klein suggested that all Muslims in the United States should be identified with a crescent-shape tattoo or a distinctive arm band, the phone lines jammed instantly.

"For me to suggest to tattoo marks on people's bodies, have them wear armbands, put a crescent moon on their driver's license on their passport or birth certificate is disgusting. It's beyond disgusting.

"Because basically what you just did was show me how the German people allowed what happened to the Jews to happen ... We need to separate them, we need to tattoo their arms, we need to make them wear the yellow Star of David, we need to put them in concentration camps, we basically just need to kill them all because they are dangerous."

Those in agreement are not a fringe minority: A Gallup poll this summer of more than 1,000 Americans showed that 39 percent were in favor of requiring Muslims in the United States, including American citizens, to carry special identification.

Roughly a quarter of those polled said they would not want to live next door to a Muslim and a third thought that Muslims in the United States sympathized with al Qaeda, the extremist group behind the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.

"The level of knowledge is very, very low," said Mohamed Esa, a U.S. Muslim of Arab descent who teaches a course on Islam at McDaniel College in Maryland. "There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and some people think they are all terrorists."

And optimists saw signs of change in the November 4 election of the first Muslim to the U.S. House of Representatives, which has 435 members.

full story:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1

[artzelda]

When Muslims in America who are citizens start speaking out against the dangers posed by their coreligionists in other countries who denounce America and say Death to America then Americans will look at them differently. Until then their silence speaks volumes as to where their loyalties lie. To date they have not demonstrated any loyalty to the US.

This post has been edited by artzelda: Dec 4 2006, 06:32 PM

[The_Ro]

We have the same problem in europe, and we have like 400.000 muslims in Denmark alone... Total population 6 millon...

Muslims don't speak out against it, cause they know the facts better than most normal ppl... And because they face exclusion from their society if they speak up...

[artzelda]

That says alot about Muslims and where their loyalties lie.

[The_Ro]

What is it with you americans and picking sides? When you require everyone to pick which side they are on, where their loyalties lie, you are bound to provoke conflict...

Is it not better to not choose a side, thus also not participating in the terror groups or the "witch hunt"? When you force people to pick their side, you are asking for hostility, and eventually, war...

[artzelda]

World War !! demonstrated that not picking a side didnot make you immune from attack. History is a great teacher. There is no such thing as neutrality.

[The_Ro]

There is no such thing as neutrality.

In peace, there is nothing BUT neutrality...

You americans should be careful with the "you're either with us, or against us" attitude, cause more and more people, when faced with that dilemma, would choose to be against you... You are surely the strongest single military power, but play any strategy game, and it will teach you that a whole bunch of small opponents can take down the main power with ease...

This post has been edited by The_Ro: Dec 6 2006, 06:41 PM

[artzelda]

Not if the maximum use of maximum power is implemented. A game is one thing, a determined leader is another./ I don't care about the rest of the workd. There are many American who feel as I do. Not yet big enough majority, but it will as Europe becomes more anti-American and if another attack on the US succeeds. The new congress won't change this. In fact they are already backtracking.

[The_Ro]

There are many American who feel as I do.

And for every one of you, there are 10 who feel like me, or worse... You figure the odds out ;)

[Deepone]

Personally, I feel diplomacy - which is promoting neutrality, co-operation and GRAY AREA on topics instead of you vs us - is a lot better way than saying we rule, you follow. If you do not care about others, they sure are not going to care so much about your problems. Personally I was totally offended by US saying Finland is terrorist state because we did not say "attack by all means" and instead said that it should first be investigated and so on. Promoting PEACE instead of WAR that is.
I almost agree with the research that showed Osama being most fearest "evil" person on the world. Only that in my opinion the second and first should have been reversed - Bush is the world's worst person instead of only being second. other than that, I agree with it. The obvious reason is TOTAL disregard of others and the massive firepower he controls.
If you think more about it, about all problems would be solved if people only would think of themselves on the other side's position, thinking of others more than themselves. If Osama would have been thinking more of what he will cause to others (not only the immediate victims but also the side-effects, for example heavily troubled air traffic and so on), I think he wouldn't really have gone that far. If Bush would have stopped and thought about the situation he would have not done everything he has (mainly attacking other countries without real reason - greed for oil doesn't count!). And before there is someone complaining, I do NOT mean that he shouldn't have investigated the matter THOROUGHLY, I mean he SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED ESTABLISHED PROCEDURES instead of starting the war on terror (and by doing so, causing a lot of distress against themselves too! Just using myself as an example, I actually do not anymore feel so bad about the attack. Sure, for the people sufferinng, but as a nation.. it feels almost deserved).

Okay that was some hard text and was not intended as flamebait but as to promote some discussion about the topics mentioned. Moreover, just so you know, Osama should be punished. The same goes for Bush too thought, for war-crimes and for promoting the war and well you get the point :)

[artzelda]

You lose. Europeans don't fight, they surrender - based on past performance.

[Deepone]

Based on the fact that americans are from Europe..
and basing on history, as you seem to like, I would like to point out the disregard of others: supporing slavery for long time, treatment of native americans, vietnam... I suppose you get the point ?

And did Finland surrender for enemy more than ten times stronger ? no - and we held our own! Hitler is not a person who is approciated but I would like to point out that even HE respected Finnish military. Should say enough of being on the losing side ? ;)
Going back to neutrality.. I give you an example: Sweden during WW2. They were able to maintain that throughout the war, and as it so happens, they were NOT conquered, they did NOT need to surrender. And on many nations that had to surrender on the verge of destruction, the resistance lived on..

EDIT: Just as a question.. what kind of countries you would like ALL countries to be ? Thinking of others or just themselves ? War-promoting countries or Peace-promoting countries ?

This post has been edited by Deepone: Dec 7 2006, 01:42 PM

[artzelda]

Would any of these supposed neutral countries remain neutral after all their neighbors had been conquered? I doubt it.

As for slavery, the US never supported slavery, but it did tolerate it. In fact more American died eliminating slavery in our civil war. Even the founders of the US Constitution debated about slavery. Learn your history.

Not all Americans are from Europe. Those that are came for a reason. Not because Europe was so good.

I want countries to respect their citizens, impose and guarantee human rights and allow liberties such a freedom of speech to the extent the US does, freedom of religion to the extent the US does, guarantee a Bill of Rights to the extent the US does. No country on earth, including Finland, guarantees these rights and freedoms to the extent the US does.

The concern for native americans you speak about was really conducted and promulgated by the Europeans that came to this country and moved West. But I guess Findland and other European countries have treated there NATIVES well also, except who were the natives of Europe - Europeans.

The disregard for others you talk about seems a little disingenuous because no country has to accept the concerns of other countries in the implementation of its foreign policy. If other countries don't agree or view it as a threat they can respond appropriately and face the consequences. Europe should have some regard for the opinions of Americans. bitch Bitch BITCH that's all they do. But recent events have shown what Europeans have done and continue to do to minorities in their countries, things which would not be allowed in the US.

In fact the one country in the world that most people want to emigrate to is the US. No other country has the immigration and waiting lines at their embassies of people wanting to get visa to emigrate to the US - this one fact is indisputable.

[The_Ro]

Would any of these supposed neutral countries remain neutral after all their neighbors had been conquered?  I doubt it.

Most of Swedens neighbours were conquered... For another example, look at Thailand (Land Of The Free), as all countries around them were colonized, they remained neutral and has to this day never been conquered, despite having much stonger countries surrounding them (Japan, Malaysia etc.)

Maybe you should learn some history of the world, not just the US ;)

As for slavery, the US never supported slavery, but it did tolerate it.  In fact more American died eliminating slavery in our civil war.  Even the founders of the US Constitution debated about slavery.  Learn your history.

Debated and decided to allow it? :P

I want countries to respect their citizens, impose and guarantee human rights and allow liberties such a freedom of speech to the extent the US does, freedom of religion to the extent the US does, guarantee a Bill of Rights to the extent the US does.  No country on earth, including Finland, guarantees these rights and freedoms to the extent the US does.

In denmark, you can say "Cock and Balls" on TV, and you can show it too...

Despite half the world being in a rage about it, Denmark stood up to everyone, when they wanted us to not show pictures of Mohammed the Prophet in the newspapers...

2 journalists were just judged innocent, after PE (Police Intelligence) dragged them to court, for printing confidential information...

How's that for your freedom of speach? Could this have happened in the great US?

As a matter of fact, the reason Europeans disagree with the actions of the American, and our own, governments IS the completely free and independent press. The reason Americans can't see it, is because the US is using more propaganda than the Nazis did before WW II at the moment...

Also,

The US is leading the attempt to police the internet,
the US is telling everyone what to do, and what not to do,
the US has gone to war with communist countries, because they didn't agree with communism,
The US has lots of things you "Won't see on TV!"... Why? Because of censur.

Also, talking about human rights for all citizens, where was it when all the Japanese where trown in camps after Pearl Harbour? Where was it when blacks were forced to sit in the back of the bus? Couldn't eat in "White Only" restaurants...

Get the picture?

The concern for native americans you speak about was really conducted and promulgated by the Europeans that came to this country and moved West.  But I guess Findland and other European countries have treated there NATIVES well also, except who were the natives of Europe -  Europeans.

We are where we belong, where we have always been, and where we have a birthright to our land...

In fact the one country in the world that most people want to emigrate to is the US.  No other country has the immigration and waiting lines at their embassies of people wanting to get visa to emigrate to the US -  this one fact is indisputable.

When the world is turning hostile, and people are scared, the weak will flee to the most powerfull part to hide... The strong and brave stay where they are, and stand up for themselves... Not neccesarily through military power, but perhaps by the power of freedom? The power that comes from the will to be free, truly free, and never let anyone scare them into taking the wrong side...

:yahoo:

[The_Ro]

Those in agreement are not a fringe minority: A Gallup poll this summer of more than 1,000 Americans showed that 39 percent were in favor of requiring Muslims in the United States, including American citizens, to carry special identification.

Roughly a quarter of those polled said they would not want to live next door to a Muslim and a third thought that Muslims in the United States sympathized with al Qaeda, the extremist group behind the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1

Talking about human rights... :dunno: